Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger Blog Directions: You will use the Bloom's Higher Order Thinking Prompts to pose questions to your classmates and then answer your classmates' questions. Questions must be from the analysis, evaluation, or synthesis cues. Steps to follow: 1. Pose your best question--you don't even have to know the answer to it. Because your question will come from the higher order thinking skills, it will require your peers to explain and support their ideas with textual evidence from the novel. 2. Answer two prompts posed by your peers. Your responses must be explained thoroughly, using textual evidence (that means direct quotes cited correctly) to support your ideas. Write at least a paragraph to explain your ideas (5-7 sentences, which does not include the textual support). 3. You are responsible for reading all of your classmates' responses. If you respond to the same question as someone else, you need to read their response so you are
why do you think Holden asks people to meet up with him only to get in an argument, bother them, or get in a disagreement with them?
ReplyDeleteI think Holden does this because their so good-looking. This is shown in the book by this quote " She got away with it because she was so damn good-looking, but it always gave me a pain in the ass. " (67) It seems that a female's personality or things he finds annoying about them doesn't matter to him if they are good-looking. Or if he admire them for something: which is shown by this quote " He was a pretty intelligent guy, though. He really was" (77).
DeleteHolden will ultimately meet up with people to have conversations with them about things that are meaningful to Holden. Holden doesn't intentionally meet up with people just to fight with them in some way. The problem is nobody else wants to have the type of conversations Holden does and nobody gives Holden the answers he wants. Just like when Holden went to talk to Mr. Luce at the bar Luce did not want to talk about what Holden did. "'No. I'm only kidding,'I said. "Listen, hey, Luce. You're one of these intellectual guys. I need your advice. I'm in a terrific--" He let out this big groan on me. "Listen, Caulfield. If you want to sit here and have a quiet, peaceful drink and a quiet, peaceful conver--'" (Salinger 77). But also as Cameron mentioned he likes to meet up with pretty girls and he tries to find ways to be intimate.
DeleteHolden doesn't meet up with people for the purpose of fighting with them. He contacts people in hopes of getting help. Holden is lonely and any human contact in meaningful to him. Although, Holden doesn't know how to ask for help and his conversations often stray into arguments. Like Sean used as an example, when Holden met up with Mr. Luce he wanted help and advice from him which is demonstrated in this quote, "'I need your advice. I'm in a terrific-' He let out this big groan on me" (77). He planned on asking Luce for help but got cut off in the middle of his sentence. After being cut off Holden probably didn't have the courage to finish what he was going to say. Luce cutting Holden is what caused the conversation to go south. Holden is just desperate but doesn't know how to associate with people anymore.
DeleteWhy do you think Holden judges so many people on how poor they are and how swanky their clothes or suitcases are?
ReplyDeleteI think Holden judges people on how poor they are because he has so much money and just doesn't realize that not everyone is like him. I think he wishes he could help others with his money though, such as when he donated money to the nuns but then he also states that, "It isn’t important, I know, but I hate it when somebody has cheap suitcases (108)." Holden knows there is poverty but he is just very materialistic and likes his things to look new, he knows it should not bother him but he wishes everyone could have what he has. I do not not think he means anything bad when he judges people on what they have he is just trying to say he wishes everyone could as wealthy and equal to him.
DeleteHolden judges people on how poor they are because it is in Holden's nature to compare himself to others whether it be how phony they are, how the dress, what the drink, how they act in public, and just anything and everything about the people around him. For instance Holden begins to describe the Antolini's apartment as soon as he walks in, "Mr. and Mrs. Antolini had this very swanky apartment over on Sutton Place..."(97). I agree with Rylee when she talks about how Holden is ignorant when it comes to what poverty and how not everyone has the money his family has. I think that Holden judges people just because that is the way he is and he is a very observant person.
DeleteHolden is a very judgmental person, and he judges other characters a lot throughout the book. It really seems to be just how he is, but he shouldn't be like that, and I will agree with Max and Rylee on that point where he is ignorant about it. What may seem like something cheap to him, might be worth a million dollars to someone else. He doesn't realize that the true value of things is not by how much you spend on it, or how swanky it looks, but by the memories that you create with that object or whatever it may be that are the most important. Holden judged that kid he roomed with in chapter 15 that did't have the nice suitcases that he had. The kid would hide his cases because Holden's were so much nicer.
DeleteDeep down I feel as though Holden is trying to build himself up by making those comments, because I feel as though he is insecure about himself doesn't have anyone to lift him up in his life or be there for him so this kind of makes him feel important. He is not making fun or saying the other people are inferior to him but rather just telling himself something that he actually has going for him. I do also agree with Max that it is also in Holden's nature to judge people and compare himself to others. This is the quote that Matt was talking about where he also compares his suitcases with Stradlater "You think if they're intelligent and all, the other person, and have a good sense of humor, that they don't give a damn whose suitcases are better, but they do. They really do. It's one of the reasons why I roomed with a stupid bastard like Stradlater. At least his suitcases were as good as mine" (Salinger 59).
DeleteWhat do you think was the motive behind Holden's choice to go see Mr.Antolini? Provide evidence from the book to support your claims; Then precede to justify Holden's motives behind his choice to see Mr.Antolini.
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden is hoping that he will pick up the pieces of Holden’s life and put them back together, like he did James Castle when he jumped out the window. Mr. Antolini was the only person there for James Castle and Holden believes that he would do the same for him metaphorically . "He was the one that finally picked up that boy that jumped out the window I told you about, James Castle"(94).
DeleteWhy do you think Holden is so emotionally unstable and is there any situations throughout the book that you think led Holden to be a certain way?
ReplyDeleteI believe Holden is so emotionally unstable because he has not had the ability to create a solid relationship with anyone other than Phoebe. Once Allie passed away Holden has not been able to become that close with anyone. Him not having any solid relationships throughout the book has caused him to keep all his emotions bottled up. If Holden had created solid relationships he may have been able to share his emotions instead of expressing them through anger and rage. I also feel that Holden not having a close relationship with his parents has made him feel unimportant which makes Holden think maybe he does not have ability to create a solid relationship. His inabilities to create a solid relationship made Holden express his anger to almost everyone he tried to talk to which lead to him missing everyone he lost. He shared this with us at the end of the book, " About all I know is, I sort of miss everybody I told about. Even Old Stradlater and Ackley, for instance. I think I even miss that goddam Maurice. It's funny. I don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody (2140." I think Holden has finally realized that maybe not everyone is perfect and that being happy for himself is what he needs to balance his emotions.
DeleteWhy do you think Holden is so curious about sex? Could he be questioning his sexuality?
ReplyDeleteHolden has never really had experience with things related to sex or an actual sex talk, like many teenagers get growing up. I think Holden was asking Carl Luce repeatedly about sex because Holden does not know what everyone else probably knows. Stradlater seemed to view girls as sexual objects while Holden thought of Jane as just a person. Holden wants to do what every other guy is doing, but maybe Holden does not know what he really likes, because he has not had that much experience. When Mr. Antolini stroked Holden's hair in chapter 24, I think Holden started questioning his sexuality a little bit. "I felt something on my head, some guy's hand. Boy, it really scared hell out of me. What it was, it was Mr. Antolini's hand" (191). Holden is just very on edge and confused.
DeleteI think Holden is so curious about sex because he hasn't experienced it himself and wants to know what he has to do when the times comes. I do think he is questioning his sexuality a lot throughout the book. He seems very interested in flits and how they become flits. He asks questions so he can keep telling himself that he wants to get it on with girls and to tell himself that is what he is interested in and would enjoy. But whenever he gets chances with girls he seems uninterested and is scared to embark in any sexual interactions which makes me think he may not be interested in girls. The quote in chapter 19 "He said you could turn into one practically overnight, if you had all the traits and all" (Salinger 77) interested Holden tremendously and made him question whether or not he would turn into one overnight as well. Like Tori said above, in chapter 24 it appears that Mr. Antolini may be trying to get sexual with Holden and he may have felt himself liking it a little so he had to leave. He may have been scared that he could have turned into one overnight if he stayed there.
DeleteDo you think that Holden should go and see a psychoanalysis like Luce suggested? What situations throughout the book lead you to think Holden needs therapy?
ReplyDeleteI think Holden should definitely go see a psychoanalyst. Based on this quote from the text " I
Deletewas crying and all. I don't know why, but I was. I guess it was because I was feeling so
damn depressed and lonesome." (82) He seems to have emotional outbursts and he doesn't know why. Which means there is most likely something wrong with his brain, which is why he needs to go see a psychoanalyst.
While reading the book, Holden seems to be digging himself a bigger hole. He keeps getting himself into more sticky situations and making everything more complicating. I think Holden needs help and needs someone to talk to about everything he went/is going through. When Luce suggests Holden to get help, it is because he really needs it. He is constantly starting fights with people for silly reasons, and he always seems to have a negative attitude towards life and everyone. Holden is always upset and depressed, which does not help the situation of him avoiding his house and parents. A few examples of Holden acting out would be when he is constantly lying to others, getting kicked out of all these schools, always having a sour attitude towards women, and disliking everything. A quote from the book, that Phoebe said, "You don't like any schools, you don't like a million things" (169). I think this quote really shows how Holden views everything and how noticeable it is to others that Holden has a negative attitude towards life and that he does need help.
DeleteDo you think Holden's parents neglect him because they are fed up with his antics, or do you think they are aware of his mental health and don't know how to approach the situation so they choose to leave it alone?
ReplyDeleteI feel it questionable as to wether or not Holden's parents are truely neglecting him. The only time he speaks about his parents are at the start of the book, when he suggest their reaction to him flunking out of another school, and when he talks about his father being a lawyer. The only time we ever hear either of his parents actually speak is when Holden is in Phoebe's closet. This information, which is also shared through the biased words of Holden makes me doubt wether or not his parents are neglecting him. I do not mean to make the case that his parents are good parents but, they seem to have given Holden a few chances before they, as Holden claims, send him off to military school. All children doubt and question their parent's methods of parnting, and some for a good reason but, often times there is much more to their actions than we ever see.
DeleteI agree Hunter that it is questionable if Holden's parents are "neglecting" him. So far throughout the text we have never had a real interaction with his parents. We cannot be sure of how they really treat and care for Holden. This comes to another point where we are unsure if Holden is truly a very reliable narrator. Holden is depressed and cynical, so I think he exaggerates certain things. One of those things he exaggerates is when he feels he has failed. When Holden fails out of school he feels like he has failed his parents, and it sends him deeper into the whole of depression. I think they probably know something is up with Holden but they keep giving him chances thinking he will come out of it. ""No, he won't. The worst he'll do, he'll give me hell again, and then he'll send me to that goddam military school. That's all he'll do to me'" (166). Holden may also feel like his parent just don't really care, which it doesn't seem like they do all too much considering they just continue to send him off. Holden has no repercussions which I think could make him feel even worse about himself because no one cares enough to make a scene about him failing out of three schools.
DeleteHow is Holden's current attitude related to his relationship with his parents?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think Holden tries to get so much attention from women throughout the book?
ReplyDeleteHolden doesn't have much of a relationship with either of his parents because they are not in his life as much as they should be, due to work. One would argue that Holden tries to attract attention from women throughout the novel because of the lack of support from his mother. As the novel continues, you see more of Holden's views toward women aren't so kind. For example when Holden goes to a lounge and expects the, "(. . . ) three witches at the next table(. . . )" (70) to give his "suave" self the attention he feels entitled to and when they laugh at him he proceeds to criticize them. He tends to think they are less superior and one would say, as many other would infer also, that it is because he is lacking attention from his mother. Holden never had attention from any women growing up that could nurture him, which could most certainly be why he thinks women are inferior, yet also why he seeks out their attention, perhaps looking for one to give him the compassion he needs. It seems as if Holden sees himself as a superior male character compared to those females who are involved in the novel, even when calling them phony he continues to entertain them and act as if he's having a "grand" time.
DeleteHolden has not gotten that much attention from women or had that much luck with women, so I can understand why he tries to be cocky and an attention seeker so women will notice him. The only girl that Holden can actually talk to is his ten year old, little sister Phoebe. Holden is not good with words when he tries to express himself to women or anyone, he kind of gets lost. Holden does not know what getting attention feels like, because of his childhood and having such tough luck with talking to girls. When Holden wanted a night with the prostitute, I do not think he got the gist of what the prostitute wanted because she just wanted to go and get it over with he just said, "Don't you feel like talking for a while?" (95). Holden does not understand what he wants in a girl or what they want because he does not get to know them and I think that is one of his problems.
DeleteWhy do you think Holden engages with people he doesn't necessarily like?
ReplyDeleteHolden has to engage with people he does not like because he belongs to a unique group which merely himself can fit in. Almost everybody and everything is not fit with his "morals and standards" in New York City. Holden is constantly looking for attention or an open ear, even with people he criticizes, people like Ackley, " Boy, he could really be aggravating sometimes. He never missed a chance to let you know you were sixteen and he was eighteen"(25). While Holden degrades those who are in cliques, he is constantly looking for his own group. However with his attitude most people would rather be alone than in his company. Holden is a confused teen looking for his place in life, and quite often he finds himself mixed with people he can't stand, but that's all he can get. As the old saying goes, "beggars aren't choosers".
DeleteHolden is so interested about people keeping their innocence, why doesn't he care about his own?
ReplyDeleteHolden isn't worried about his own innocence because he accepts that he already has lost it. He realizes that losing his innocence isn't the best thing. He wants to stay in his childhood and doesn't want things to change. He doesn't want others to lose their innocence because he doesn't want them to change either. For one, Phoebe asks Holden what he likes and Holden can only list things that are from the past or the present. "'I like Allie,' I said. 'And I like doing what I'm doing right now. Sitting here with you, and talking, and thinking about stuff, and-' 'Allie's dead-You always say that! If somebody's dead and everything, and in Heaven, then it isn't really-'" (171). This quote is an example because Holden only lists two things that he likes and one is in the past and one was the present. This suggests that Holden doesn't like what's ahead in the future. Later Holden talks about being the catcher in the rye. "'What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff-I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them'" (173). Holden expresses his desire to save all these kids from going over the cliff. The cliff just might be a metaphor for adulthood. Holden must've accepted that he's already gone over the cliff so he wants to protect everyone else from falling so nothing else changes. He couldn't save himself so he might feel as if he should help others to make up for it.
DeleteI will agree with Jenna when she says that Holden doesn't worry about his innocence anymore because he has already lost it. “Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around--nobody big, I mean--except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff--I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I'd do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all” (Salinger 173). This quote is very symbolic I feel to how Holden feels about adulthood and innocence. I think he has felt as though he has already fallen off the cliff which is adulthood, but he has been sent back up to prevent the other kids from going there too fast or at all. It is just like when Phoebe gets on the carousel, it makes Holden happy because he is noticing that there is still a playful, childish side in his sister. That is why Holden doesn't seem to care about his innocence, he knows he has already lost it, he is just there to protect his sister and other kids from losing it.
DeleteHolden is seen many times as a hypocrite, especially where he does something he doesn't like others to do. Give an example of this and explain why you think he does it.
ReplyDeleteHolden refers to people as "phonies" but refuses to see reality and the phoniness in himself . One example of Holden being a phony is when Holden travels to Mr. and Mrs. Antolini's apartment for care because he is too afraid of what his parents will do if they find out he got the "axe" at Pencey. "'"What I'll do, I'll probably stay at Mr. Antolini's house till maybe Tuesday night...'"(96). This was the most prominent example of when Holden was a phonies because Holden talks about how people need to take on their problems and then Holden goes and shelters himself from his family because he is afraid. Some may say that this was hypocritical and there are many more examples of when Holden fails to abide by his own moral rules.
DeleteWhere do you think Holden is telling the story from and what in the text makes you think that?
ReplyDeleteI had made predictions from earlier in the book that Holden would be telling his story from somewhere where he got help from. And that is right where he ended up as this quote shows. "A lot of people, especially this one psychoanalyst guy they have here, keeps asking me if I'm going apply myself when I go back to school next September"(Salinger 114). He is with a psychiatrist who is helping Holden cope and get out of his depression he has had throughout the whole book. Holden is finally realizes that he misses certain people that he had thought he hated. "D.B. isn't as bad as the rest of them, but he keeps asking me a lot of questions, too. He drove over last Saturday with this English babe that's in this new picture he's writing"(Salinger 115).We also learn he is out west with his brother D.B. from the quote before. Holden could also be laying off labeling people phonies now because he lives with somehow he had called a phony before. You would think living around a phony would kill him and living around the rest of Hollywood.
DeleteBefore I finished the story, I made the prediction that Holden was telling the story to his wife as an adult in the future. Holden doesn't like to talk about his personal life much to anyone other than people who are close to him. The quote in the first chapter really tells us that he is bothered by people knowing his past life, "IF YOU REALLY want to hear about it, the first thing you'll probably want to know..." (Salinger 1). For Holden to come out and tell someone about his past, must mean he is comfortable around them, so it would seem possible as to Holden telling the story to his wife, someone for him to be close with. After finding out Holden was telling this story to a psychoanalyst seems to make more sense because Holden does have issues and needed help.
DeleteWhat motive is there for Holden to leave New York with Sally, when he was having trouble just being around her before he asked?
ReplyDeleteHolden is random. He doesn't have a filter and therefore says whatever he feels needs to be said. This is sometimes something that get Holden into trouble. He has gotten in fights, been called names and plenty of other things just because he has failed to keep something to himself. In this case I think Holden is just wanting to run away and then decides "Oh, wouldn't it be nice if this good looking girl were to come with me?". Just before Holden had said that he didn't even like Sally, he was talking about marrying her! Holden doesn't know what he is talking about half the time anyway. He thinks she is pretty and his feelings are heightened. "I didn't even like her much, and yet all of the sudden I felt like I was in love with her and anted to marry her" (124). Holden's motive was unclear, he had no real motive is the thing.
DeleteWhy do you think Holden says he misses everyone in the end of the book and what makes you think this?
ReplyDelete